Briga za bhakte na šastričkom nivou

Nastojeći sve više pomaknuti u stranu sve podjele u Vaišnava društvu na bilo kom nivou(straight-liberal,political-non political,involved-not involved etc.),pokušavam razumjeti tko i da li u međuvremenu brine za potrebe bhakta na obe strane (duhovne,duševne,emocionalne,socijalne,ekonomske,psihičke etc.).Pojedinac je uvijek na vjetrometini i na udaru grupe kao generatora energije,te pojedinac ponekad totalno zbunjen biva pometen i uklješten između polarizacija.Moja tema bi bila kako brinuti za pojedinca kada su stvari na bilo kom nivou poremećene,te da li je on kolateralna žrtva takve situacije.Mora li se staviti na stranu bilo koga i kako to utječe na njega i njegov duhovni život?Te kako mi možemo pomoći da se stvari pokrenu u njegovom interesu (zaštita interesa u svim situacijama).Na primjer:bhakta Joe ima svoju uvriježenu duhovnu praksu,dio je zajednice koja ima autoritete koji vole new age preaching,što njemu po nikakvoj osnovi ne odgovara.Razmišlja što da učini,da se uklopi ili da se distancira ili da ode negdje drugdje prakticirati duhovni život na koji je pristao i odgovara mu.Muči sebe i želi se uklopiti ali ne ide,te u međuvremenu vidi da njegovi autoriteti nemaju sluha za njega i potrebe koje proizlaze iz prakse duhovnog puta(njegovog).Surađuje ali nevoljko misleći da radi uvrede ako ne surađuje,pokušava stvari iskomunicirati s svojim autoritetima ali ne ide,te odluči poslije nekog vremena da ode iz grupe te potraži mjesto gdje će moći raditi na svoj uvriježeni način duhovnu praksu.
Pošto ovaj primjer pokazuje volju za suradnjom koja ne ide,te postoje i drugi primjeri zanemarivanja pojedinca,postavljam primjer bh.Joa kao početak diskusije.
Yhs Sunandana d.

Ako je osoba iskrena, naći će pravi put. I u tom smislu ne treba brinuti, zar ne?

Problem je što svi mi previše brinemo i bojimo se, često očekujemo da netko drugi riješi naše probleme,
slijepo vjerujemo društvu i zajednici koje opet imaju te iste svoje probleme..... i tako unedogled.
I ja sam u skupini onih koji često zaborave da se promjene moraju dogoditi prvo u vlastitoj kući.
Krišna nam je dao inteligenciju iz određenog razloga.

Ts Jasmina

The V.O.I.C.E. [Violations of ISKCON Children Exposed] website, by former gurukula students Nirmal chandra and Maya Devi, includes a page of anonymous personal accounts. The following story took place on Janmastami, a holy day commemorating the appearance of Lord Krishna. In ISKCON, members fast until midnight, the hour that Krishna appeared. The V.O.I.C.E. editors warn readers:

Remember as you read these testimonies, that this happened to little defenseless children, who were in residential schools, far far far away from our parents. Warning: content is shocking. We have not included the names of the countless victims and perpetrators, and don't ask us either. This is an emotional journey - if you are a parent and sent your child to gurukula, it could be the life of your child, and the perpetrator could be a friend of yours. Many of our abusers are in high and respected positions within iskcon. Listen to your child, without defending the religion and the gurus.

Janmastami Nightmare: One Account of Child Abuse

I was four or five. It all started on Janmashtami night. We kids didn't have to fast all day but we'd only gotten a small amount of food. We had a nap in the evening so that we could stay up for the feast at midnight. I think the problem involved my waking up grouchy or something. Anyway, there were two of us involved (at least initially). All the other kids were getting ready for the arati and feast (it was late at night, about 11 or so) and this other kid and I were being tied up with strips of cloth (kopins). Our hands were tied together and our feet were tied together. Then our feet were tied to our hands behind our backs. We were left on our stomachs with our limbs all tied together behind us. I could barely breathe because of the pressure on my stomach. We stayed that way in the dark for a while, then we started to try to get out. The other kid was more nimble than I was (or more loosely tied) because he could get his feet under his body and move around. He came over near me and we talked bit trying to figure a way out of the bonds. We were unable to get free on our own. Then something unbelievable happened. An adult who was chanting japa in the ashram heard us talking and came into our room. He untied us and we got ready to join the festivities. Just as we were about to leave the ashram, our teacher returned to check up on us. After ranting at the other person to mind his own business, he tied us back up even tighter than before. We spent the night tied up. Everybody got to sleep in the next day because of being up late. We were not completely untied in the morning. Our hands were left tied behind our backs. After breakfast (no hands -- oatmeal off a plate) the teacher decided that the whole ashram deserved to be punished. He then tied everyone's hands behind their backs. Then we were tethered together as pairs. Then we were all tied together. It ended up with a big knot in the center of a circle of kids tied with our hands behind our backs. He then made us walk up and down with him in the parking lot while he chanted japa. We tried to manage but kept tripping over each other. We were all stuck together in a clump. We stayed that way all day. In the evening we got fed again. We each got a styrofoam cup full of kichari which we got to eat with our hands behind our backs. We knelt there in the grass and tried to get as much food down our starving throats as we could. We were being yelled at the whole time that we were dogs and that this treatment was too good for us. Some kids spilled their food and ate it off the dirt. Some forced their faces into the cups to try to lick the bottom. Some ate the styrofoam. When we woke up the next morning, our hands were untied and we got to go to the bathroom and wash the dried up food off our faces. It was totally disgusting.

Gdje su bili ti roditelji???? Kome su oni vjerovali???
Čime su ih filali??? Sorry bakte, ovo su stvari nakon kojih NIŠTA više NE MOŽE biti kao prije!

To nema nikakve veze sa Srila Prabhupadovim ISKCON-om i njegovom vizijom. Postoji li danas takav ISKCON?

Tema jest briga o baktama, ali ovo itekako ima veze s tim ako gledamo na ISKCON kao društvo.

Evo, neću više, samo se počnem živcirati.

Bhakte za sebe obično misle, da su vrlo napredni, zato što nose majicu ISKCON. Bh.Joe iz tvoje priče treba shvatiti, da KC ne znači biti deo institucije, nego "biti svjestan Krišne". Dok Joe nema ukusa za više stvari, nema drugog osim prožvakano. Svaki bhakta je individualna osoba. Nije moguče tu baš puni ispuširati. Možeš ispuširati praksu, ali ne možeš jednostavno ispuširati ukus. Treba vrjeme.

Bh.Joe treba realizirati, da odlazak iz grupe drugih bh.Joe-va ne znači kraj njegove svjesnosti Krišne. Dok to ne svati, mučit če se raznim idejama kakav bi on trebao biti, da ga drugi Joevi prihvate, i daju mu svoj Joe-authority blagoslov, kako bi i on postao takav Joe kakvi su i oni sami.

Kada imaš viši ukus onda to znaš. Kada je pun trbuh, onda znaš. Nije jednostavno, može potrajati puno života. Ne trebamo se čuditi, da ima problema. Večina baktiča hoda naokolo praznim trbuhom, i onda im ne ostaje drugo, nego da pokušavaju istisnuti nektar iz new-age instant metoda unutar takozvanog ISKCONa, ili čak izvan ISKCONa. Bolje išta, nego ništa.... Tužno, ali istina. Kad bi svi imalu ukus za KC, nitko ne bi ni pomislio na neke new-age stvari. Ali ukus ne možeš ispuširati.

Ako ti grupa ne da ukusa, ili ti čak stvara probleme, zašto bi se trudio oko te grupe?
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Evo friški copy/paste iz BVKS Sange:

The result of Krsna consciousness is that one becomes increasingly enlightened, and he enjoys life with a thrill, not only for some time, but at every moment.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bg 18.7
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He, he, ima toga puno, jeli?

ys gnd

Jasmina, kad se uslovljene duše igraju paramahamse, onda možeš očekivati svega i svašta. Srila Prabhupada je dao sve što uslovljena duša treba, da postane svjesna Krišne, i dostigne savršenstvo.

ISKCON institucija je kao sladka riža, u kojoj je primješan pjesak. To je uvjek tako, kad se uslovljene duše igraju opunomočene avtoritete. Srila Prabhupadov nauk je nektar, ali ljudi su problem. Specijalno lideri, koji agresivno usiljuju svoje ideje drugima, i mašu naokolo sankcijama i suspenzijama za "neposlušne". Odnosi sa takvim problematičnim ljudima postaju razlog za odlazak večine ljudi daleko od ove ISKCON institucije. Jer, tko je takav idiot, da če gubiti vreme sa osobama, koje mu ne mogu ponuditi ništa osim problema. Društvo takih osoba nije "association of devotees", čak i ako oni nose majice sa velikim napisom ISKCON.

Evo tajna uspjeha za ISKCON, od Srila Prabhupada:
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One can understand about God only in association of devotees. Therefore we are advocating this Krsna consciousness movement, society. Actually, you'll find, one who comes to this society, by associating a few days, a few weeks, he becomes conscious and he comes forward for initiation and further advancement. So this association is very important. And the, those who are conducting different centers and temples, they should be very responsible men. Because everything will depend on their sincere activities and character. If they are insincere, then that will not be effective. One may come and associate with us, but if we are insincere, then it will be not be effective. But if the devotees are sincere, anyone who will come in contact with a devotee, he'll change. That is the secret.
(from Purport to Gaurä Pahü)
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ys gnd

vaša oba odgovora su ok,samo Girinayaka prabhu,moj bhakta Joe je hipotetički lik,čiju osobnost nisam učvrstio kao učesnika,samo hipoteziram.Mislio sam podvući još hipoteza sa nekim iskustvima bhakata te da o njima raspravljamo.Jasmini ću samo replicirati glede iskustva Gurukulaca koja su btw. prestrašna,da sam bio tamo tom bi liku skinuo glavu s ramena bez razmišljanja.Zasigurno ne bi imao vremena nit za Yamaraja.
ŠB 1.19.14:
Dishonest miscreants flourish because of cowardly and impotent executive heads of state. But when the executive heads are strong enough to curb all sorts of dishonest miscreants, in any part of the state, certainly they cannot flourish. When the miscreants are punished in an exemplary manner, automatically all good fortune follows. As said before, it is the prime duty of the king or the executive head to give protection in all respects to the peaceful, offenseless citizens of the state.The devotees of the Lord are by nature peaceful and offenseless, and therefore it is the prime duty of the state to arrange to convert everyone to become a devotee of the Lord. Thus automatically there will be peaceful, offenseless citizens. Then the only duty of the king will be to curb the dishonest miscreants. That will bring about peace and harmony all over human society.


Impotent executive heads of state,može biti prevedeno u impotent executive heads of ISKCON,jer su oni to znali i tolerirali,što ne znači da im ja sad spočitavam već samo podvlačim njihovu ulogu u svemu tome.Dolje ispod piše kako bhakte Gospodina trebaju biti.
Yhs Sunandana d.

.... meni je to sve jako tužno kad čitam ali si ne mogu pomoći. Srce mi puca za tom djecom.... to je toliko teško da si uopće ne mogu zamisliti te umove i te ljude koji su to sve gledali i tolerirali. Neobjašnjivo

Jasmina je napisao/la:.... meni je to sve jako tužno kad čitam ali si ne mogu pomoći. Srce mi puca za tom djecom.... to je toliko teško da si uopće ne mogu zamisliti te umove i te ljude koji su to sve gledali i tolerirali. Neobjašnjivo

Da, ali još tužnije je, kad te iste osobe, koji su mučili decu uime gurukule, onda propovjedaju drugima, kako bi sada sve trebalo biti. Prvo su nasilni preko svih granica, a onda nas pokušavaju ubjediti, da sada znaju problem, i da sada pravilno razumu stvari. Ali kad ih analiziraš, vidiš da samo idu iz jednog extrema u drugi. Prije "udri po bhaktama", sada "ljubav do bhakta". I naravno, njihove NOVE metode, specijalne metode, nemaju veze s Prabhupadom, nego uglavnom temelje na nekim karmi metodama, psihologiji, mayavadi itd i puno ljigavog sentimenta.

Tu je opis jedne takve osobe: http://www.iskconslovenija.net/2008/09/22/zapuscina-iskcon-gurukul/
Glavna stvar je u okviru, "The Legacy of ISKCON Gurukulas ", i počinje od ovde:
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" I remember only too well Laxmimoni’s face as she screamed at us, calling us prostitutes. When I see little girls playing the very same age that I was in the Gurukula, I cannot understand what kind of person, what kind of woman or mother, could push a little seven year old girl’s face into her stool soiled panties and rub her face into her own stool? ....."
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I takvi ljudi nas žele ubediti, da prije nisu znali, ali sada znaju!!! Oni sad najbolje znaju kako se brinuti o bhaktama na šastričkom nivou!!!

Šta je uopšte briga za bhakte na šastričkom nivou? Kad bhakte dodju zajedno, oni prorodnu brinu jedni o drugima. Problem je, kad se neki, koji zapravo još nisu bhakte, igraju bhakte . E, onda ima svega i svašta, uključno sa pitanjem "Kako brinuti za bhakte???"

Pa, eto "bhakte", Krišna brine za bhakte, i bhakte su u blissu kad vide Krišnovu brigu. Oni, koji ne vidimo Krišnovu brigu za nas i druge, baš i nismo neki bhakte. I onda očekujemo, da se o nama brine kao o "bhaktama", a uistinu dobijamo tačno što zaslužujemo. Krišna zna.

ŠB 2.2.6:
If we want at all to end this anomaly of a godless civilization, we must follow the principles of revealed scriptures like the Šrémad-Bhägavatam and follow the instruction of a person like Šré Šukadeva Gosvämé who has no attraction for material gain.